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 72 hour hold 
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Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:28 pm
Posts: 317
Post 72 hour hold
Have just come back from the ER. They have placed a 72 hour hold on Del who has been in some kind of meltdown process over the past week since his broke his collarbone and separated his shoulder and had 9 staples in his head. He has become increasingly confused and over the weekend became combative. Last night (this morning) at 4:00 I found him naked, standing in the bathtub. He needs help to get in and out of the tub. But there he was looking like Lucille Ball in that episode where she stomps the grapes. He had trashed the bedroom and started to throw things at me..a bench..later a chair. He struggled with me and was tryig to push me someplace. Then he knocked over all the lamps in the living room. I couldn't get him to calm down so I called the police and he went to the ER. He was combative with the staff there and wanted to duke it out with a security guard. He is too unpredictable for me to have at home. On Saturday he had waved around a screwdriver wanting the sheriff to come over and supervise changing out his bed because his was sometimes making ice cubes for him to sleep on and sometimes heating up and sometimes letting water seep up and surround him. When he was out of the room, I hid all the knives.

Who stole my husband and who is ths man they have put in his place???

No smiles today....Nan


Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:18 pm
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Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:33 pm
Posts: 3310
Location: Vermont
Post Re: 72 hour hold
Oh my Nan, you have been through quite an ordeal. He's on pain killers, right? What's next? I'm sure you don't want to have to move him to a facility, but you do need to keep yourself safe (and sane). Thinking about you and sending thoughtwaves of support! Lynn

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Lynn, daughter of 89 year old dad dx with possiblity of LBD, CBD, PSP, FTD, ALS, Vascular Dementia, AD, etc., died Nov. 30, 2010 after living in ALF for 18 months.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:35 pm
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Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:53 am
Posts: 969
Location: Ocala, FL
Post Re: 72 hour hold
You said it .... 'Who is this man?' My heart goes out to you. I can't imagine the pain of all this for you. (It bothers me when Dale thinks I'm having an affair. :oops: ) You gals who have totally out of control men are saints! There has to some reward for you some day.....

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Leone Carroll (75); wife of Dale (75) who passed away March 23, 2011


Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:56 pm
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Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:30 pm
Posts: 317
Location: southern cali
Post Re: 72 hour hold
nan.. im so sorry you are going thru this.. hopefully you can take this 72 hours, to get some much needed rest,,,, he is safe, they will watch him... hopefully they can figure out what is casuing this, and give him something to help.. before sending him home!! i know it must of been hard to call for help.. but you did the right thing..

take care,
cindi

_________________
sole CG for hubby.1st symptoms, 2000, at 55. Diag with AD at 62, LB at 64.. vietnam vet..100% ptsd disability,sprayed with agent orange, which doubled chances for dementia. ER visit 11-13,released to memory care..


Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:18 pm
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 4811
Location: SF Bay Area (Northern CA)
Post Re: 72 hour hold
Nan,
I'm glad you are protecting yourself! I hope the psychiatrists can find the right meds to control your husband's behavior. (I wonder if it's mostly attributable to the pain associated with his collarbone breaking?) As you probably know, many people decide to place their family members when this sort of situation arises. Maybe a temporary placement is warranted?
Robin


Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:27 pm
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Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:28 pm
Posts: 317
Post Re: 72 hour hold
Robin, I am certainly being urged to place him. I, like Pat, am having a problem getting my head around this. I hate to think of him in a place like he was in two years ago. Why is it so easy to see what others should do and so difficult to do it...even when you see it...when it is your own LO?

Nan


Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:49 pm
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Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:46 pm
Posts: 3213
Location: WA
Post Re: 72 hour hold
Gosh, Nan! That sucks! BTDT just earlier this month but I didn't have the police send him to the ER because he had calmed down by the time they got there. These episodes always seem to play themselves out but, wow! While they're happening, it's "Katy, bar the door!"

Where, indeed, are the men we married? I think of that movie, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, where these pods were placed near where a person slept and then an alien being would replace the person but would look identical to them. That's just how I feel, sometimes, as if aliens have invaded his poor mind and body.

I'm so sorry, Nan. You and Del will most certainly be in my thoughts and prayers this week! God bless you both!
Hugs galore, Pat

_________________
Pat [68] married to Derek [84] for 38 years; husband dx PDD/LBD 2005, probably began 2002 or earlier; late stage and in a SNF as of January 2011. Hospitalized 11/2/2013 and discharged to home Hospice. Passed away at home on 11/9/2013.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:54 pm
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 1978
Post Re: 72 hour hold
Nan,
What an ordeal you are going through I am so sorry to read this and I too hope they can find the right meds to control this out of control behavior, I am glad you called the police, not much else you can do in a situation like this. Sending you good thoughts and lots of Prayers!

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Irene Selak


Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:52 pm
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Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:28 pm
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Post Re: 72 hour hold
Have just returned from the hosptal. Del is a degree or two better, but nowhere near baseline. They gave him Haloperidol yesterday before I got there. They were appologetic and it doesn't seem to have triggered anything. He was still very agitated. He slept a few hours last night with the help of some trazodone. Today he is more aware of where he is,but is fighting against the restraints. If they take the restraints off him he climbs out of the bed and falls. Not able to consequate actions.

He hasn't had any further outbursts of aggression after one incident of trying to push prople away using the bedside table. That was yesterday late afternoon. Nothing today.

He is still taking off all his clothes. I probably am at fault. I have spent 35 years telling him what a cute butt he has. Now he wants to share the glory that is him.

thanks for all your well wishes and especially the prayers.

Smiles, Nan


Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:30 pm
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Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:33 pm
Posts: 3310
Location: Vermont
Post Re: 72 hour hold
Nan - my thoughts are with you. It is really hard. How did they manage to give him meds he wasn't supposed to have, or at least that's what it sounded like you were saying?
Lynn

_________________
Lynn, daughter of 89 year old dad dx with possiblity of LBD, CBD, PSP, FTD, ALS, Vascular Dementia, AD, etc., died Nov. 30, 2010 after living in ALF for 18 months.


Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:35 pm
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 4811
Location: SF Bay Area (Northern CA)
Post Re: 72 hour hold
Will they be keeping him longer than 72 hours?


Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:15 pm
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Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:28 pm
Posts: 317
Post Re: 72 hour hold (Lynn and Robin)
Lynn, I don't know why they gave it to him. There was an order on his chart that said Haloperido PRN, and as he was so agitated they gave it to him. Maybe when someone comes in on a 72 hour hold it is just standard. It has been taken off his med list. He is actually in a regular hospital bed on a regular ward with a roommate who is there for medical reasons.

I had heard that the 72 hour holds here were not in a secure ward, but I had no idea that they were integrated into the general hospital population. With a really agitated patient in one bed who has been placed on a hold for the safety of others, it would seem to me that there might be some big risk involved.

Robin, at the end of the 72 hour hold there is a judicial hearing that will be held at the hospital. At that time it will be determined whether he can be realeased (at no risk to himself or others) or whether he should get a 14 day hold. If he gets the 14 day hold they will transfer him to another facility. This time it will be to a facility that has a mental health ward, preferable one tha has a geratric mental health ward. However, since his docs (Leverenz and Samill) are both at the VA they are trying to do a transfer to that facility. I left a voice mail for Dr. Leverenz today at the request of the discharge planner.

He is starting to come back from the delerium. A few more days and it may resolve on its own if they are able to sleep him through the night. Not getting sleep is one trigger....medications, and certainly anesthesias are thers.

Thanks for your interest. If we can avoid the SNF, I want to.

Smiles, Nan


Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:35 pm
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 1978
Post Re: 72 hour hold
Nan,
I assume the 72 hour hold is because the police were called in and now I am reading they "could" determine a 14 day hold if I understand you correctly, this is scary because I am thinking of other caregivers who might be faced with the same situation you were and put their own safety at risk for fear of this happening, I am suggesting other caregivers might want to discuss with their doctors in the event that this happens to them what they should do.

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Irene Selak


Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:55 pm
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 4811
Location: SF Bay Area (Northern CA)
Post Re: 72 hour hold
Anyone can be held against their will for 72-hours if they are deemed a danger to themselves (ie, suicidal) or others.

In our local support group, we have seen many people held in the psych wings of local hospitals for 2 weeks. I would say that in each case, this is what the primary caregiver (usually spouses, sometimes adult children) wanted as well.

Nan - I hope you hear back from Leverenz and that your husband can go to the VA.


Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:19 pm
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Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:28 pm
Posts: 317
Post Re: 72 hour hold
I knew that there would be a 72 hour hold. But in many ways, it is a good thing. Now, they cannot send him home during that 72 hours because there is a legal hold on him. He had a day surgery in September and had another one of these episodes of delerium. The surgeon wanted to send him home when there was no way he could be taken care of, needing a two person transfer and being unable to follow any directions. the 72 hour hold gives the patient 3 days to be looked at and the caregiver 3 days to plan.

In our state, neither the police, nor a doctor, nor a parent or a spouse can put someone into a 72 hour hold. The only persons with that ability work for the county and are called CMPHP"S (County Designated Mental Health Professionals). The reason for this was the abuse of the mental health system as a dumping ground.

We are still working on the VA link. I am hoping it will happen today.

Irene, I am really okay with this hold. I worked in the Mental Health System in this county before my retirement and I still know lots of the people working in it. the CDMHP who will have my husbands case on Thursday when the judicial hearing takes place at the hospital is someone I have had worked with on cases and I respect her judgement and feel comfortable that he will have the best disposition possible. It may not be the ideal, but it will be the best possible at the time, given the bed availability at the time.

There still is so much shame based thought about illnesses that have a behavioral component. I would not feel ashamed to say that my loved one had a spike in temp and threw up for a whole night. In Dels case he did not throw up...the threw things and took his clothes off. It is an illness and these are symptoms of the illness, nothing more. I know a woman who was ashamed to tell her doctor that her husband was undressing in the front yard. It's a symptom....nothing more.

That's my rant for today.

Smiles to you all after two nights of uninterrupted sleep. Nan


Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:03 pm
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