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 Deceit and LBD: Going 'home' 
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Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:46 pm
Posts: 3213
Location: WA
Post Deceit and LBD: Going 'home'
DO NOT deliberately try to deceive your LBD LO! It may work sometimes but not always. And its failure to work can precipitate a crisis.

It worked once before when my husband wanted to go to his house [the address he has on the LBD wallet card I filled out for him]. I put him in the car, we drove around, and then came back to the house, where I pointed out our house number and the name on the sign and he seemed content.

Yesterday, it did NOT work. We arrived back at the address which matches his card but he said, "We're back here again!". He accused me of 'playing games' [which I was] and was furious, to the point where, later, as I had posted, I had to phone the police.

So, while it might work with AD patients [as I learned at a support group], deception is not a reliable tool in LBD. And he remembers it today and is still upset ['repulsed' by my behavior, as he puts it]. :cry: You can't win. And I can't think of another thing to try. He's starting to obsess about the same thing this afternoon. :shock: I've had him busy doing some engraving craft but he's already lost interest. I find [hear me, Leone?] that when he's on one of these obsessive rants there is no distracting him and I try to avoid him. Even so, it tends to escalate.

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Pat [68] married to Derek [84] for 38 years; husband dx PDD/LBD 2005, probably began 2002 or earlier; late stage and in a SNF as of January 2011. Hospitalized 11/2/2013 and discharged to home Hospice. Passed away at home on 11/9/2013.


Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:38 pm
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:46 pm
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Location: SF Bay Area (Northern CA)
Post Re: Deceit and LBD: Going 'home'
Have you tried any medication for the delusions? They are notoriously hard to treat.


Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:43 pm
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Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:46 pm
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Location: WA
Post Re: Deceit and LBD: Going 'home'
Robin, he does take 75mg Seroquel at night but since it has a sedating effect I've been afraid to give it during the day as he might be more apt to fall. And he gets so paranoid during these episodes he probably wouldn't take anything, anyway. While the Seroquel has worked in reducing his hallucinations and helped him sleep more soundly, it hasn't done anything for delusions. I'm certainly open to suggestions, though. His PCP is very cooperative, too. Thank you.

_________________
Pat [68] married to Derek [84] for 38 years; husband dx PDD/LBD 2005, probably began 2002 or earlier; late stage and in a SNF as of January 2011. Hospitalized 11/2/2013 and discharged to home Hospice. Passed away at home on 11/9/2013.


Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:59 pm
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:25 am
Posts: 227
Post Re: Deceit and LBD: Going 'home'
It always amazing me what they will fixate on. My MIL might not remember what she had for lunch, but she remembers that supposedly the doctors made a mistake with her meds (they didn't) and that's why she is the way she is.

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Donna (age 56) caregiver for mother-in-law Margaret (age 88).


Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:28 pm
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Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:46 pm
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Location: WA
Post Re: Deceit and LBD: Going 'home'
You're so right! My husband doesn't even remember he HAD lunch and yet will remember I tried to deceive him yesterday. He'll probably remember it next week. Next month. Maybe even next year! Another reason for him not to trust the 'impostor' who claims to be his wife. :|

_________________
Pat [68] married to Derek [84] for 38 years; husband dx PDD/LBD 2005, probably began 2002 or earlier; late stage and in a SNF as of January 2011. Hospitalized 11/2/2013 and discharged to home Hospice. Passed away at home on 11/9/2013.


Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:40 pm
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Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:53 am
Posts: 969
Location: Ocala, FL
Post Re: Deceit and LBD: Going 'home'
When I read about the request to 'go home' here recently, I had not experienced it with Dale. I did today. He woke this morning in a 'dream' and there was no distracting him away from it. The delusion was that Dale thought that a man, a suspected enemy, was trying to get into our house... and our bank account.

I was the enemy and I was working with the 'basketball players' against him. After breakfast, he asked for his wallet - which he usually keeps in my purse. As he put it in his short's pocket, he said, "I'm going home." I said, "You are home." He wasn't convinced so I asked who was going to take him. He said he would get someone to do it. As I told some of you, he followed that by studying a bank statement for two hours. (I don't know what he was reading on it.)

He is back to normal now and we've talked about it. It surprised me to know that he says he really wanted to get out of the episode but he was too deeply emotional to do so. In other words, his love for me made him want to stop... but he was powerless to do it. He says it was like riding a roller coaster. As it escalated, he couldn't get off.

I was begging him to stop - with about every method I could think of - but he didn't stop until I called my sister on the phone. He picked up the extension and the three of us started talking. I also gave him Seroquel 25 mg. (He regularly takes 100 mg before bed.)

It fascinates me that he is now able to talk about the experience and he has even apologized. Both of us wish we knew what was going on in his brain.


As a matter of fact, Dale helped me write this. Go figure! He hopes this report will help others.

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Leone Carroll (75); wife of Dale (75) who passed away March 23, 2011


Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:44 pm
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Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:46 pm
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Location: WA
Post Re: Deceit and LBD: Going 'home'
Leone, it's fascinating that Dale can look objectively at his episodes like that. Derek has never been able to.

_________________
Pat [68] married to Derek [84] for 38 years; husband dx PDD/LBD 2005, probably began 2002 or earlier; late stage and in a SNF as of January 2011. Hospitalized 11/2/2013 and discharged to home Hospice. Passed away at home on 11/9/2013.


Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:50 pm
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Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:28 pm
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Location: Minnesota
Post Re: Deceit and LBD: Going 'home'
Thanks for sharing, Leone and Dale! It is fascinating that you were able to remember the episode, Dale, and that the two of you were able to discuss it and resolve hurt feelings.

Mom tends to study her bank statement, too, though I'm not too sure that she knows what it means. Much of the time, she believes it is 1990 or earlier. Sometimes as long ago as the 50's and 60's.

One of the things that I have done up to now with Mom is occasionally show her how I go on line into her bank accounts and do her banking electronically. It both surprises her that I can do that and reassures her that things are OK.

It is wonderful that the opportunity is there for you to talk about these episodes. Even if Mom remembers them, she is too embarrassed to discuss them. And she has lost the ability to put a sentence together beyond the second word, so has pretty much given up. I hope you cherish this chance you've been given and talk all you possibly can about your experiences. You're not only doing yourselves a favor. When you share them, you help us understand what our LO's might be experiencing.

Thank you so much.

Kate

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Kate [i](Cared for Mom for years before anyone else noticed the symptoms, but the last year of her life was rough and we needed to place her in an SNF, where she passed in February 2012)[/i]


Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:25 pm
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:25 am
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Post Re: Deceit and LBD: Going 'home'
My MIL will study her bank statement for hours, too, day after day until I hide it from her. I also don't know what she sees. She tried to give my husband a check for $10,000 the other day and wouldn't take it back. Needless to say, we ripped it up. Good thing we're honest.

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Donna (age 56) caregiver for mother-in-law Margaret (age 88).


Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:41 pm
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Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:53 am
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Location: Ocala, FL
Post staring at the bank statement and honesty
It's good to know you are honest, dagoetz!

What was quite odd yesterday, (when Dale was staring at the bank statement for hours), was that he was continually asking me, "Where did all the money come from?"

That's such a strange question coming from a man to whom I've been married for 27 years. He used to know our financial situation so very well. What happened to all that knowledge?

It was almost as if he was asking if I had obtained the funds fraudulently. Had I become a thief? It's easy to see how someone with dementia could be conned.

Yes, I'm glad you are honest!

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Leone Carroll (75); wife of Dale (75) who passed away March 23, 2011


Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:51 pm
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:46 pm
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Location: SF Bay Area (Northern CA)
Post Re: Deceit and LBD: Going 'home'
mockturtle -

What they teach in classes on dealing with dementia is trying two approaches. Say you are faced with the statement "I want to go home." The first approach is redirection. So, the caregiver might reply "Let's go home after we have a big bowl of ice cream (or nice cup of soothing tea)" and then hope the person forgets about the issue.

Second is addressing the emotion behind the topic. So, the caregiver might reply "Yes, I miss home too. What do you like most about your house?" Or "Tell me about your house." Or "Tell me about your favorite room in your house." Or "I can see this would be upsetting not to be in your home. How long have you been away from your home?"

As an experiment, when your husband seems lucid, you might say: "Do you know that sometimes you don't think you are at home? How do you think I might respond to you during those times?"

Robin


Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:08 pm
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Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:46 pm
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Location: WA
Post Re: Deceit and LBD: Going 'home'
Robin, my husband is never lucid any more. And he never thinks he's home, just as he never thinks I'm his wife. When he shows me the address on his LBD wallet card and tells me to drive him there and I ask him what it's like he says it's just like this place. :shock: So I think it's a Capgras delusion. This house isn't his real house, although it looks just like it. I'm not his real wife even though I look just like her.

I used to be able to fool him by driving him here but that was almost a year ago.

_________________
Pat [68] married to Derek [84] for 38 years; husband dx PDD/LBD 2005, probably began 2002 or earlier; late stage and in a SNF as of January 2011. Hospitalized 11/2/2013 and discharged to home Hospice. Passed away at home on 11/9/2013.


Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:15 pm
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:46 pm
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Location: SF Bay Area (Northern CA)
Post Re: Deceit and LBD: Going 'home'
OK, so the "experiment" I suggested won't work. Perhaps the other suggestions for redirecting or addressing the emotions (by entering the delusion) will.


Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:48 pm
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Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:46 pm
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Location: WA
Post Re: Deceit and LBD: Going 'home'
I hate to be so negative, Robin, but those measures don't work, either. When he is on a strong delusional fixation NOTHING will deter him. Yesterday afternoon he was starting up again so I gave him 25 mg of Seroquel and that quieted him down pretty nicely. He and I watched all of the movie Oklahoma and he even seemed to enjoy it. I hate the fact that I have to medicate him to calm him down but it beats calling the police.

_________________
Pat [68] married to Derek [84] for 38 years; husband dx PDD/LBD 2005, probably began 2002 or earlier; late stage and in a SNF as of January 2011. Hospitalized 11/2/2013 and discharged to home Hospice. Passed away at home on 11/9/2013.


Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:19 pm
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Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:28 pm
Posts: 317
Post Re: Deceit and LBD: Going 'home'
When I think of medication, I try to think of it as something that will make your body chemistry more like the person who does not have the medical problem you have. I don't think that making a person less agitated is doing them a disservice. Quite the opposite. I don't think you should snow him under, but there is nothing wrong with making him less aggressive and agitated. It is better for him not to hurt his wife and it is better for his wife not to get hurt.

Take care of yourself! Nan


Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:37 pm
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